[00:01:30] When Lesley’s boss said ‘no’ to flexible working conditions in 1995 she took the leap into freelancing
[00:03:30] How that decision led to building a community of women seeking work from home roles and founding Hire My Mom
[00:09:30] Steps to get prepared when you’re ready to hire for your first admin support role
[00:14:30] Pricing tiers to expect for different role responsibilities
[00:16:30] How to set yourself AND your new hire up for success when you’re getting started
[00:24:00] If an in-house ad manager role is on your radar, Lesley shares Hire My Mom secrets for success when applying for roles
Jody: [00:00:00] Welcome everybody to this episode of Online Confidential, where we go behind the scenes to talk about ‘Secret Ad Manager’ business. This topic has a two-pronged approach for us as ad managers building our business to hire team members. Or maybe we’re at a point where, “I would just like to go and work for somebody”.
Our special guest today is Lesley Pyle, the founder of Hire My Mom. Welcome to the show, Lesley!
Lesley: [00:00:30] Thank you so much for having me, Jody.
Jody: Oh, it’s a pleasure. It’s a tricky thing because here in Australia we say Mum. We’re very lazy. It’s Hire My Mum, but it’s Hire My Mom, it’s the M O M.
Apologies if my American accent, Australian accent is throwing things off.
Tell us a bit about the history of Hire My Mom. I’ve known of it for years. I go there, I look at it, and check it out. You’re doing amazing things there, helping to educate women about working from home, which is [00:01:00] amazing.
How did it all begin?
Lesley: It all began for me in 1995. Working from home has been a part of my life ever since I had my first child, and she is now 27. At that time I had just finished my Master’s Degree. I had no interest in just being a stay-at-home mom is how I looked at it.
Just being a stay-at-home mom. I wanted to climb that corporate ladder and work in Corporate PR. [00:01:30] That’s what I had studied in my undergrad and my Master’s. But something happened when I had that baby. Something switched in me, that Mom gene was amplified and I wasn’t expecting that.
I did go back to my job for about two weeks, but I was miserable and I cried every single day at my desk. I soon learned that that was not going to work for me. So again, this is 27 years ago, working from home was not a thing. But I was [00:02:00] determined. I think that’s one of the traits that has helped me so much, is I was determined to make it work.
So when my employer said no to any kind of flexibility, I decided I would just freelance. With my husband’s approval, we cut every bill we could. We lived on pennies for a season. We sold one of our cars. We ate ramen noodles, we got rid of cable tv. We did all of that so that I could start building up freelance clients and [00:02:30] have the luxury of being at home with my baby.
And it was rough. It wasn’t easy those first, couple of years, but it was very worth it. In that time when I began freelancing, I had, as you can imagine, a ton of questions. The internet and social, social media was non-existent. The internet was brand new to me at least. And I thought, well, where are other Moms who either work at home or want to work at home?
How can I connect [00:03:00] with them? And having that PR background really was advantageous for me. So I began sending press releases out about starting an online organization for Moms who worked at home, and I thought, I had worked in college for a association, so I kind of had a little bit of that background too, and I thought I’d need to have an online, kind of like a Chamber of Commerce for Moms who work at home.
So that worked. I was able to get [00:03:30] featured in Baby Magazine way back then and lots of regional and local TV, radio, newspapers, and so I was able to launch that website back then. I think I launched the website in ‘97. It was called Home-Based Working Moms, and it was like a virtual Chamber of Commerce.
So women could sign up either for a free membership or we had a paid membership. And then as it grew, I was able to take advantage of that [00:04:00] audience with advertising revenue. So I was able to generate advertising revenue for companies that were seeking women, like Creative Memories, if you remember those kind of companies.
Pampered Chef, those companies they were mainly home parties back then. That was really about the only thing people were doing that was really from home, unless they were starting their own freelance business. So that helped me earn more money. As that grew, I stopped doing freelance work and just ran that website for [00:04:30] about 14 years and developed a very big community of women who worked at home or wanted to work at home.
Then in about 2005, 2006 as the internet was becoming more popular and social media was not really starting yet, but you had message boards and things like that. So I thought, wouldn’t it be neat if I could create a website, now that people are more open to working from home. If I could do like [00:05:00] Match.com for women, or mainly women and small businesses. Be a platform where those two people could meet and find their perfect match for working.
So that’s where the idea for Hire My Mom came from. I launched that with my audience of women and then I had to learn how to get the attention of small businesses and try to get them to give these women a chance to work from home. In beginning, I offered the businesses free job posts.[00:05:30]
Basically I wanted to prove to them that these women would do a fantastic job if you would just give ’em a chance. That was my business model early on. Let me prove this concept is great and let me get some fans, if you will, and develop a customer base on the business side. That was in 2007.
So here we are, I think 16 years later and running strong. Now we have a good audience of women who [00:06:00] are looking for freelance or contract work, or even W2 employment from home.
And then we have the small businesses who have found that this is a great pool of candidates because typically they’re more serious because they do pay a small subscription fee on our website.
They are inundated with hundreds and thousands of resumes but because there is a small fee, it kind of weeds out those who aren’t as serious, who are just kind of throwing the [00:06:30] resume at everything. It’s worked well for those small businesses who don’t have, they’re not HR people, so they don’t have hours and hours and hours to go through resumes.
They want to look at 10, 20, 30 resumes and start interviewing that day sometimes. It’s worked to be a good fit for the two audiences that we serve.
Jody: Fantastic. Wow, what a journey. That’s like the dark ages before social media, [00:07:00] all of those things. That’s just an incredible story of just seeing that need and a lot of this, a lot of us as ad managers as well, we’ve made this journey because of similar circumstances.
I had the three little kids. I needed to find something that was going to be flexible for me to be at home with the kids. That was my journey into what can I do working from home. I know a lot of women particularly have that journey of, they’ve had their corporate career, they’ve had kids, what can I do now working from home?
We’ll dive more into [00:07:30] that shortly. But have you seen, well COVID came along, and we were all locked down, and everyone’s now flocking to Zoom, and it was like, that was so annoying. It was like Zoom worked well, then all of a sudden everyone was on it. It was all glitchy. It was like people, you’ve ruined our workspace!
Since Covid and all of that, have you seen more acceptance or trends? Have you seen a big shift? That working from home is okay now? Like it’s more legitimate. Did you see something like that?
Lesley: I did see, I wouldn’t [00:08:00] say a huge shift because I think small businesses already had that mindset because a lot of times they’re looking for contract or freelance work because they typically can’t afford a full-time employee.
So I think small businesses were already pretty open to that idea. But I do believe it made a big shift for bigger businesses, especially brick and mortar businesses who were traditionally just in-house and they never really [00:08:30] considered or thought it was a good idea to allow people to work from home.
So I think that’s where we saw the biggest shift because they were forced to allow people to work from home for that season. Some of them continued on that path and kept working remotely and others preferred to be in person for a variety of reasons. It works better for them. So I think it was great publicity though for just proof of concept that you can work from home and you can get things done, and sometimes your [00:09:00] productivity is higher at home than in the office.
I think that was one of the bigger things that came out of Covid is just that realization.
Jody: Awesome. Like you say, I worked with national Restaurant Chain and everyone had gone to work from home and it did certainly change things when they had that as, oh wow, we can do this working from home and had ongoing impacts and effects from that, that did make that shift.
Okay, we’ve got the two arms here. We’ve got [00:09:30] here you can go here to get work. And so for some of us ad managers, there’s a point where working for someone rather than doing the client chase and the client hustle is a great place to be. And then for ad managers, who are looking to hire. So let’s start there.
We have a lot of ad managers, and they’re looking for administrative support or a marketing assistant, or maybe even an operations manager. If they were to come over to Hire My Mom, where do they start? How do they know [00:10:00] what to outsource? What do they need to be ready to set them up for a successful hire?
Lesley: What I tell people is, make a list of what you do every day for a week, and then if you’re feeling like you can’t do it all or you don’t want to do it all and your time could be best served somewhere else. I like to tell people, look for two things.
Look for what you’re not as good at and look for what you don’t enjoy. Those are the first two things I think you should [00:10:30] hire out. So what are you not so good at? Maybe accounting is not your thing. Then hire a bookkeeper or someone to handle your invoicing.
Or let’s just say you’re not very organized. You’re a little bit maybe scatterbrained so maybe you need someone to control and work on your email, your calendar, and those types of things.
Maybe your zone of genius is creativity or management. So stick with what you’re good at, what you enjoy doing, and sub out, hire out those other things. [00:11:00] So a virtual assistant is great for managing.
I have someone on my team that answers all the emails that come in through our website. She goes through every job post that comes through to verify the legitimacy of it, make sure it’s a real person, a real company. So we have a process that we go through so that we can prevent scams. She also responds to phone calls, text messages, so that, as you can imagine, frees me up if I had to do that and what I do every day.
I would be bogged down just doing [00:11:30] administrative thing. So she’s golden. She’s such a blessing. And then some people prefer to have somebody else do their social media. Maybe if you are wanting to promote yourself, but you don’t either like to do that or don’t have time, then hiring someone to help you have a presence on social media that can learn your voice, learn your values, and then put that out on the different social media channels that are important to you.
So those are just a couple of ideas.
Jody: Great ideas and yes, as an ad manager, [00:12:00] definitely we have our own zone of genius. And it’s looking at those tasks that you may be able to do, but is it the best use of your time? And if it’s not, then yes, hire someone else. So you can focus on that higher level, more revenue generating work.
So, as they look for people, write that list, get that down, put a bit of a job description together. As they’re looking at hiring, how do they know, like contractor, or an employee, what should they look [00:12:30] at there and what do candidates on your site normally do?
Lesley: A couple of things I tell people is you don’t have to worry about, maybe you think “I only need someone 5 to 10 hours a week”.
That’s actually okay because there are Moms that, that’s all the time they have. They might have an infant and they can only really find 5 to 10 hours a week, but they want to work and maybe they need that little extra money. So that would be a blessing to them and a blessing to you.
But let’s say that ideal [00:13:00] candidate wanted more than that, then she is free to look for other jobs that are 10 or 20 or however many hours if she’s looking to work, 30 or 40. So don’t be afraid to post a job if you feel like you don’t have enough work for them, because that’s not an issue I’ve found.
Then if you are new to hiring, one of the things that we have developed for that audience is a small course called Hiring Made Easy, and it answers so many of those questions about W2, our contract [00:13:30] labor what to know before you hire. What are some common roles that you can hire out for? What are the job descriptions for those? What is the typical pay for, let’s say a virtual assistant? And it goes through some things about managing remote employees or contractors.
It’s not a long course. It’s not going to take you hours and hours to do. I would guess it would probably take two or three hours maybe to go through it. But it’s just all those resources in one place for people that are just a little [00:14:00] bit maybe intimidated by hiring. So we’ve packaged that together because we do tend to get small businesses, entrepreneurs, solopreneurs, who are new to the hiring process.
So this helps them feel confident in that process.
Jody: Yes, that is a great resource. We’ll make sure we have the link for that in the show notes because a lot of us haven’t done this before, so where do we start? Job descriptions are great, but a big question that is often asked, how much would I expect to pay this [00:14:30] person?
With that, if we go there, a bit of a ballpark, for a virtual assistant, what’s that sort of price range? And then if you were to look at someone that’s maybe a bit more skilled, like a business manager or an operations manager, what kind of ballparks there would you estimate?
Lesley: For a virtual assistant, I would say for the base pay, I’d say is probably about $20 an hour.
I do see some of them at about $15 an hour, but you’ll typically not get as many [00:15:00] candidates applying. But if they’re highly skilled or if they’re technical and they do website work too, and they have a whole host of skills, they may even charge up to $35, $40 an hour. But if you’re just looking for some basic administrative things, then I would say roughly around $20 an hour.
For operations or sometimes that’s referred to as an Online Business Manager. Those typically are someone who basically is your right hand person who can take over [00:15:30] management of all, if you have a team, they would help manage that team.
You would communicate to that person and then she would run with all those different tasks and team members and do all of that so that you’re just focused on your zone of genius and not having to manage a team or make sure everybody’s doing their job. So that role, I have seen those anywhere from maybe $35 an hour, up to maybe $50 an hour, roughly.
Jody: Wow. Which is a great [00:16:00] hourly rate because knowing when you have a person in that role who can take the pressure off. Who you can trust with things. That takes so much pressure off for you, and mental energy that will come back so you can look at higher performing tasks, more revenue generating, building your business.
A great investment in your business there. I had a couple of questions on that. Is there a particular timeframe? How do you get started with someone? Do you recommend that you normally say, we’re [00:16:30] going to have a three month trial? What do you normally do when it kicks it off?
What would you recommend?
Lesley: If you’re brand new to hiring, you can definitely do a trial. What I have developed, because the very first time I hired I was nervous too. I’m like, what’s that like, how am I going to train them? And all those questions.
So what I did when I began, like my first hire was a virtual assistant, so I wrote down all the things that I wanted her to do, and as I was training her we created a Google Doc, so all of the [00:17:00] instructions were in the Google Doc.
So she was trained once, but she had a resource to go to, and of course if she had questions or if something wasn’t clear, then we met or talked through chat or something to clear that up. But that SOP, Standard Operating Procedure, is a living document that we update as needed, but if for whatever reason she leaves, then I have that already.
And training the next person is so much easier because it’s already created. [00:17:30] If you do have an operations person or an online business manager, typically they can then take over and they can maybe even do your job descriptions, hiring and training so that’s taken off your plate.
Jody: Awesome, that is a big thing as well.
If you’re a freelancer, if you’re used to doing all the work, when you get someone on board for the first time, and I’ve experienced this maybe, I don’t know if feel bad’s the right word, but it’s kind of, oh, I shouldn’t ask for this. [00:18:00] But they’re hired for you to give tasks to, so don’t be afraid to refer things over to them.
You might think, oh, I can just do this. I can just do this. But you’re actually doing your new hire a disservice by not handing things over and not giving them these things to learn so that yes, they can take them off your plate. That’s why you’ve hired them. So that can be a bit of a mindset shift there that we need to deal with.
Lesley: Yes. And we’ve also found there’s so many tools now for remote teams. So [00:18:30] Asana is one that we use for our team. And it’s so easy because we have different boards for different teams and different tasks and different projects, and some of our SOPs live in there too. So it’s so easy to find things and know where to go when you have a question or if you’re updating a project or some of our projects are weekly new, like a new blog post every week or whatever. And then we also use Slack for a few things. So those are tools that are really great when you have a remote team for [00:19:00] communications and for organization.
Jody: So essential. Because you might be in different time zones, you don’t just have someone in the cubicle next door where you could just say, oh hey, by the way.
Making sure all of those things are somewhere where they’re accessible. Everyone knows where they are. So if you’re an ad manager and you like Asana, we are on Asana. I know a lot of people love ClickUp. And a lot of things like that.
But if that isn’t your wheelhouse, isn’t your strong point, then [00:19:30] consider that in the person you’re hiring at this stage, do they have experience with it? And maybe they can take the reins of actually getting things set up there for you. So you don’t have to do it.
Lesley: That’s a great point because when I hired an online business manager, one of the first things she did was get Asana up, and set up and running.
Because I needed it, but I didn’t have time to set it up. And that was her skills, and she did a lot of things like that that weren’t my skillset, but I needed somebody to [00:20:00] do and help me get organized in that way.
Jody: Excellent. And then they can also do SOPs as they go if they set something up, getting that SOP going. Because it’s inevitable.
While we would like to think people are going to join us and they’re going to be with us forever, there’s seasons when people move on. So have them creating SOPs along the way, putting it into a spreadsheet. You mentioned Asana there, but having it somewhere so that if they do end up leaving someone else can [00:20:30] come in and see what’s been going on.
So that’s setting yourself up for success there. Now, I know another issue that a lot of people face is sometimes they seem to look at the wrong place when they’re going to hire people. For example, a lot of people go into a Facebook group where for example, they want to have a virtual assistant business and have a lot of clients.
So for us it might be, okay, I want someone part-time. I want to have a level of commitment from them [00:21:00] and not just feel like I’m another client, here’s the hourly rate, and if I ask them to join in at a meeting there’s pushback or resistance or whatever it may be.
How do we bridge that gap to make sure we are getting that right, hire that right buy-in, that someone is looking for. We want to partner with you rather than just like, you’re just another calendar client in my books.
Lesley: Right. I [00:21:30] think that’s one of the learning steps that as a person new to hiring, that you learn as you go.
That’s also one of the things we’ve included in this course. Some things you should know before you hire, and questions to ask in the interview that help you discern better whether this is a candidate that’s a good fit for you or not. And of course, somebody can come across great in an interview and then not work out but you’re going to minimize [00:22:00] that when you have the right interview questions.
Maybe you do reference checks and maybe you have somebody else interview them, but you’re more thorough. I think one mistake, as a small business owner, they’re overwhelmed, so they make a hire too quickly and then they end up seeing that that person was not a great fit.
And we see that sometimes in the business owners, like what did I do wrong? And it’s like, you probably rushed the process. I know we all need help quickly, but I promise you it’s worth it if you [00:22:30] take a little more time and dive a little bit deeper into not only their skills and their traits, but their personality.
You want someone that’s going to mesh well with your personality. If you want to call it your culture, your values, your mission statement. So there’s a lot of different things to look at in that regard. So I think it’s, you just want to have that well-rounded view of the candidate and not just zone in on, she can do the work, let’s hire her.
So, that would be my recommendation.
Jody: That’s what I [00:23:00] generally will say to people. Start the hire process before you actually need somebody.
Jody: So you could get through your training there, for example. You can get things in order, get that list ready and together, so it’s not, oh my gosh, I’ve just got to hire someone now.
Because when that tends to happen, we’re not terribly organized on the backend either, so our new hire might be twiddling their thumbs waiting for us to get something to them. We’re under the pump and it causes more pressure all around. So yes, preparation beforehand is key. [00:23:30]
Jody: So let’s look at then, we’ve got our ad managers running ads for a while. They’ve been doing the client thing, but they get to a point where I just want to run ads for somebody. I don’t want to be chasing clients and doing all the rest. So now they actually want to get hired by people to partner with them for long-term.
I’ve got one of the guys, what was it back from 2019? Someone who was in that situation. I introduced them to an agency owner and they’ve been working together ever since. It was a match made in [00:24:00] heaven.
So how do we, for ad managers who want to make that shift, how is the best way for them to position themselves then to be applying for jobs that may come through?
Lesley: We do get jobs, small businesses who are looking for someone to help them with their Facebook ads, Google ads, and different things like that. So if that’s something that some of your audience is interested in, I would say go to Hire My Mom.
If you look on the homepage, you’ll see some of the [00:24:30] newest jobs and, or you can click on the link that says Newest jobs and just kind of see if there are some there that look of interest to you?
If so, consider signing up. We have three packages for job seekers. So you can start off with a one month subscription, two months or three months, and apply for any and all of the jobs that you’re interested in. So I think it’s the first 40 or 50 jobs. The most recent are the ones that you can preview.
Once you get on, there are [00:25:00] additional ones inside. But primarily small business owners that run a small team. Typically I’d say 5 to 10 team members. So it’s I think it’s a good fit for people who are looking for work but don’t want to go to an office job.
Jody: For sure. And what can they do to make sure that they end up at the top of the pile for the short list instead of just going ‘No’, and not even making it to round two [00:25:30] .
Lesley: On the job seeker side, there are three things that are really important. It’s your cover letter, your resume, and your interview skills.
And we do have resources if someone’s like, “I don’t know how to do any of that”. We have a course and we also have HR specialists that can help with each one of those if someone needs help. But I would say your resume should be customized to every job that you apply for. You don’t want to ever send a cover letter that says, please see attached, or, I’m interested in your job.
And that’s it. You want to put in effort. [00:26:00] It doesn’t take a ton of time, 10 minutes, 15 minutes, but you want to show effort in your cover letter that you’ve actually read the job and why you’re passionate about that particular role, company, industry. You want to connect with them in the cover letter. And then obviously your resume needs to sell you.
So you want to look at that job description, what are they looking for, and if your resume isn’t hitting those points, but you actually fit that job description, then have another version of your resume that speaks [00:26:30] to what they’re looking for. And there are tons of templates out there, like on Canva, where you can create a great resume and you might have two or three, four different versions of your resume depending on what that particular job post is looking for, so that you really stand out.
And then of course, when you get to the interview you want to make sure that you have good interview skills. We have some YouTube videos that help with all these things as well as blogs.
We have a ton of resources to [00:27:00] help you with all three of those. And I would also add to that, follow up once you’ve applied for a job.
And you haven’t heard anything in a few days, follow up and don’t be afraid to let them know you are really interested in that job, because those are the people that stick in your mind. We’ve seen it time and again where a company might hire someone and they don’t work out, so they go to the next, instead of starting over from scratch.
If it’s only been a month or two, they’ll go back to that person who [00:27:30] maybe followed up and said, I’m really interested. And they’re like, well, that person really wanted the job, and yeah, they look good. So follow up. It’s key too.
Jody: Exactly. If you’ve been trying to get clients or working with clients, then you know all these things, and the value that’s in the follow up.
Even if someone came to you and they ended up going with another freelancer or an agency, it’s that continued connection.
So just staying present on their radar, popping up every now and then replying if [00:28:00] you’re on their email database, replying via their emails. Just staying front and center of mind because as we know those opportunities, yes, a hundred percent, they do come up.
Lesley: And you can also connect with them on social media, on Twitter or Instagram or LinkedIn and comment on their post, because that, again, is going to keep you top of mind.
So if there’s a job you really want, it might take six months or a year but if every month or every couple of weeks, you’re just kind of putting your name [00:28:30] out there, you’ll be memorable.
Jody: Absolutely, a hundred percent agree. I want to ask you about pricing. So typically, if someone puts it out there, we’re wanting to hire an in-house ad manager, then it comes back. Then they would typically be saying, here’s our budget, this is what we are wanting to pay. Correct?
It’s not typically then the ad manager who would be saying, well, here’s my [00:29:00] proposal to work with you. Is that correct?
Lesley: I would bet. More times than not, the company that’s posting, looking for an ad manager probably says, we want to spend $500 a month or whatever it is, and then you would go with that.
Jody: Yep. And that’s where the payoff is. Typically if you are running your own ads, you have your own business, you have your own freelancing, whatever, yes, you typically will charge more. But then you’ve also got to spend more time networking, getting more clients in, having that [00:29:30] pipeline full, putting money aside for tax.
I mean, if you’re not an employee, then yes, you’ve still got to put money aside for tax. So that’s where that pay scale may need to reflect that, I guess. But the payoff is that you’ve got this job security here. And for some of us at various seasons of our life, in our careers, in our business, That’s alright, that’s a good place to be.
I just want to emphasize that to ad managers because I know, I know quite a few ad managers who have like, oh, I’m hanging up my hat with my agency or [00:30:00] freelancing work and I’ve gone to work here. And there can sometimes be a level of guilt that comes with it as well, like a sense of failure.
I just want to emphasize to you guys that if you feel that, I would just love to do that, but I feel like a failure in my business or whatever, that’s not the case. It’s just seasons. You’ve learned a valuable skill. Nothing is wasted and you will take all that amazing value wherever you go.
That new agency or whoever employee that you will work with [00:30:30] will benefit greatly from you working with them, and hopefully you will benefit as well because there is always so much you can learn in these different environments. So it’s just seasons and there’s no right or wrong to it. So just wherever you thrive is what matters.
Lesley: Right. And sometimes you need that simplicity, maybe the season in your marriage or your kids where you just need simplicity. You need to do the work and then be free. And there, like you said, there’s no shame, there’s nothing wrong with that. [00:31:00]
Jody: No, not at all. Happiness and that comes back to this working from home and creating and designing the lifestyle that we want as well. We’ve got this freedom and the flexibility to work from home, but if we end up creating a business or working at a place that is not bringing us that joy and that fulfillment then we’ve got that freedom to be able to say, well no, and go and do something else.
So you can either say, no, go get your own [00:31:30] clients, hire someone from, Hire My Mom to come and help you out, or go to Hire My Mom and find someone to work with. Options are there, and that’s what I love about having this skill of Facebook ads, having the internet, having social media.
There are clients, there are connections all around the world for us.
Jody: So Lesley, any final tips about hiring or getting hired?
Lesley: I’d say [00:32:00] take some time if you’re not sure which. And do like a pros and cons list and really search your heart. Talk with your spouse if you’re married, and decide what is the best fit for you this season.
And then go all in in that direction, because that doesn’t mean you can only do that for the rest of your life. You have the opportunity to change your mind in six months or six years to go a different route.
But like I said, we’ve tried to create all the resources that we can to help the small [00:32:30] business owner and the job seeker. From blog posts to YouTube videos to our paid courses, our HR specialists that help with a variety of either resumes on the employee side, and then we have a concierge service on the business side where we can help businesses hire. So feel free to reach out to me if you have questions or if I can be of any help.
Jody: Awesome. So where can people find you, Lesley?
Jody: Awesome. Well, thank you so much for your time today. That’s been a wealth of information. So guys, if you’re wanting to hire, head over there.
If you want to be hired, head over there.
So thanks for being with us today. It’s been a pleasure and we look forward to seeing you next time. Bye for now.